842 Comments on Fraud Alert!!!

Hope this spreads to other areas of the USA.  There are far too many transactions that are put together under false or fraudulent terms.  Thanks for sharing.

I believe it is coming... It is only a matter of time before a lot of this gets hewn down and thrown into the fire.

Thanks for the post. As Michelle indicated above, I also hope this spreads across the country!

Its about time!!!

Hi, David!  These characters seem to come up with new schemes as fast as they can, don't they?  Thank you for sharing.

Is franklin squires being investigated ? I have heard they are but I am unsure as I haven't heard anything from any credible 1st hand source. If they are and they are legit I assume we will all know soon? I assume they will also put out a press release saying they were not investigated or that they were but have been exxonerated. Did some of the producer's high end exotics get confiscated? What about driving $200,000 is in line with a principles govern philosophy? Arn't those cars overpriced, depreciate and just abou thet look at me factor? I don't think Warren Buffet drives those kind of cars. 

Franklin Squires is being investigated by a number of regulatory and law enforcement agencies.  Some scum-bag got an investigator from the Utah Dept of Securities on tape admitting the same. 

On a similar blog Koerber tried pulling the wool over everyone's eyes when this exact same subject arose.  Knowing what I do I couldn't let him sit there tell whopper after whopper.  Some of the people posting had actually invested money in his 'down-line' and were being stone-walled about their money.  So I called him out and dropped just enough info to let him know I was on to him.  After my post the entire thread was deleted the next day.  The operator of the blog was loosely affiliated with FS and he didn't want to lose his place at the feeding troth.    

FS is a huge cult of stupidity and criminality. 
 

David, You seem to know the most about FS from the outside.  I also notice that after about 9/15 all the questioning on thier web site disappeared and none has shown up since.  I have a brother-n-law up to his neck in FS or one of the downliners.  I have tried in vain to get them out or to just use sensable reason with securing thier money to no avail.  It is a very cult like organization in that anyone who opposes them does not understand the constitution, is envious of them, or is just plain "consumers" (not producers) even though he has not worked in over 2 years.  He just hunts, rides motorcycles or goes to another FS seminar to become a "holding company".  I listened to Rick Koerber's radio program and he admitted that he was under investigation.  The sad thing is he told an investor "you invested with one of the holding companies not with me, therefor I have never done business with you, I may owe the holding company you invested with, but not you" he also stated that he stopped paying one holding company because they were suing him and "it was not prudent to pay someone who was suing you".  Do you have any information that I could pass on to help my brother-n-law see the light in time? or is it already too late?

I have been assisting Michael Hines with the Division of Securities and Exchanges for the State of Utah.   Yes they are under investigation "Franklin Squires and the Down Line companies" From the information I have the State and Franklin Squires and the down line holding companies have come to an agreement.   This has had implications for over a year...One year ago the Division placed restrictions on Franklin Squires from accepting any more outside investments. The new agreement is that Franklin Squires and Down line companies sell off assets and repay investors @ 12% interest. The Division believes it is possible to do with assets currently held by these companies. I have questions as the market ir rapidly depreciating. I know Franklin Squires shelled American Timber craft....and other Portfolio Companies have not paid investors interest Payments since June. My in laws have 237,000 With Gabriel Joseph and Anuit Coepetis....a Down line of Franklin Squires....Gabe is Ricks right hand man.  He has failed to repay the note and has not made this months Interest payment on the Note. My opinion Rick told Gabe and others after his experience in Wyoming "Do not worry about it if you get caught there is no consequences"

 Looks like they will be getting off Scott free.....And investors will not get their 36% and could possibly lose everything even tho these scum bags promised a NO RISK INVESTMENT!

Steve M 

I just wanted to chime in here on Rick's defense.  I have no idea where you got the idea that they said it was an "no risk investment".  They have from the beginning told people to manage their risk.  Apparently, some people ignored that council and went straight for the gold.  Now, they're hurting.
 

Tim, I agree with you, there is always risk involved, and people looking for a quick buck ignore warnings. 

a friend of mine knows a group of people that's affiliated with Franklin Squires and they all drive nice cars.  he seems to think that they get them for free or close to free.  does anyone know what could be going on with them and how they can get nice cars like this for almost nothing? 

That group you are referring to is Atlas Marketing et al which I am told (third hand mind you) also had a company that invested 'capital' in Founders Capital/franklin squires.  Atlas execs and employees DID drive exotic and high-end vehicles.  The word is that they too have gone under and bounced payroll checks with their employees.  This whole scheme is crumbling.  The downline is getting crushed.  What a tangled web of deception.  Who knows how far it really goes.  One thing is certain, you won't get the truth from people who told you that "high returns don't mean high risk."  Koerber, Joseph, Wade Sleater, it doesn't really matter who it was--it was all a big put on.  Whatever trouble they are in is entirely of their own making.  

If Franklin Squires is indeed a ponzi scheme or a mortgage fraud scheme using straw buyer's ( http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600151169,00.html)  why haven't their owner's and principal employees been arrested or at least their names collectively and or individually been mentioned in  news media as possible fraudsters. I believe Dave Fox from a  Utah television station as well as a mayoral candidate of eagle mountain have been accused of mortgage fraud (see link above)  http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/241427/I am also aware that a Utah county and Utah state task force (see link latter)  has been created but you would think if Franklin Squres was involved with this sort of nefarious activity they would be the first to be brought down as they have billboards  (cheesy and lame if I don't say so myself) literally all along I-15.It seems to me the only thing they may be doing illegally has to do with unlicensed and unregistered investment's which given the founder's prior history ignorance of that law doesn't seem to bode well. However, it seems I haven't heard anything from Utah Securities against Franklin Squires so I am assuming that they unless substantial evidence is presented are operating within the laws of the state and do not appear to be doing illegal. I do think that some of their economic principles and beliefs are elementary, unoriginal and play into the mormon culture for sure but it is not against the law to re hash or plagerize the beliefs  or writings of "the American founding father's". I look forward to more discussion and inevitably an exxoneration or charge I am thinking it will more likely be the former. 

John, 

I agree with you 100 percent--if Franklin Squires is engaging in questionable behavior, then why is there no press coverage? Why is there no information coming from sort of official outlet? I read all of these people who say they have researched the company, but they provide no concrete evidence to their claims. It's always "I have a friend..." If anyone has more information on the company, when you post, tell us how you know all of this stuff about the company.

Thanks! 

If I remember correctly, the FBI doesn't comment on current investigations.  Nor do they make press releases saying "We are investigating so and so," it is not public record. 

The charges against Dave Fox were from a transaction that happened May of 2006. Investigations take time.  When you consider the scope of the investigation that either the state of Utah or the FBI is possibly undertaking in an investigation of that type, it will take a lot of time.    

I have been paying attention to this because Franklin Squires bought my home with a "Seller Finance", where they pay me based on a purchase amount of $650000 and pay a monthly mortgage on the property to me through an Escrow company.  After a certain period of time, say 3 years, they pay the remainder balance.  Problem is... they are late on their payment, granted it was due on the 10th (last friday). They have a sign on their building that says "Franklin Squires will be closed today, we are sorry for any inconvenience", and that was there last week as well.  I have tried calling their company since Thursday of last week, and all calls just bounce back to the menu, no answers.  

So in other words, something stinks. It is frustrating, because they supposedly bought my home, and I moved out.  It will be a fun process of defaulting them, and moving back into the home, without jacking my good credit score, should it come to that. 

They espouse the values and principles of Ayn Rand, and the book Atlas Shrugged, however, I am almost done with that book, and I don't see how Mr. Koerber can claim that he is in the same mold as "Hank Reardon", who in the book created and manufactured a revolutionary metal, and Dagny Taggert, who developed and maintained a large railroad company, or John Galt who developed a revolutionary Engine, they were "producers", what has Rick Koerber produced? (This is an honest question I would like answered, not a slander of him, but seriously what has he produced?) 

I have heard many other things about Franklin Squires, but they are all 3rd party, but they are starting to appear to be true.  This is just my experience with them.

Notice of default filed in Utah County involving New Castle Holdings, LLC.

It looks like FS isn't being a good steward over their own property in Mississippi or even paying property taxes accordning to a mississippi newspaper....

http://www.clintonnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071108/NEWS/711080330/1001/NEWS

 Tim ....they have gone looking for capital...My in laws were approached and offered a "No risk" Investment....It was documented. I have verified it first hand.

Steve 

I called their offices on Wed someone answered.  Wouldn't the property in Mississippi have a lien against it for non payment of taxes?

So does anyone have any idea of how many people borrowed money against their home equity to invest with directly or indirectly Franklin

Squires or how much money they raised? 

Anon:

You'd better check the title on your house.  Those douches have probably put a lien on it--meaning that your house is probably partly or entirely owned by someone else.  You should have checked your shorts before you sold to those turkeys.  Good luck, the equity in your house is gone.  Your credit score is the least of your worries.  

John:

If every Utah Valley scam were to make the news there would be no time or paper for anything else.  Lack of press coverage is not evidence of financial viability or ethical vindication.  Quit trying to protect these jerk offs.  You think securities violations are just some trivial matter?  You really think RK is going to be exonerated?  You're out of your mind. 
 

The rumor is $30 million.  

I think that RK is a dishonest man that when he goes to church on sundays and partakes of the sacrament, he thinks that makes it all better. He is the biggest hipocryte that i know

does anyone else have any info on atlas capital.  wade sleater, etc.  just curious what people might know.

Wade Sleater is working hard to liquidate assets to make payments. IT just takes time in this lending market.

Hold the phone.  Do you realize how stupid that statement is and how much it reveals about Wade's issues?  Liquidating an asset means selling off something you own.  How the hell does it have anything to do with the "lending market"?  Let me take a guess.  Wade hopes to "liquidate assets",  but can't because they were over-financed to raise his "capital".  And now it's the lending market's fault because no one (buyer or lender) wants to do 100% financing on something with 20% negative equity.  Talk about shifting the blame.  The ponzi is over an now they want to play victim because no one is dumb enough to bail them out.  Absolutely incredible.  These assholes didn't just play with fire, they were thieves from the start.  

Wade Sleater informed his workers today he was bankrupt.  He said he needed to fire them all so that they would be able to file for unemployment.  I have relatives who were working for him and were there today.

is Rick @ Franklin Squires in a similar situation? that sucks right before Christmas. They all loved him when he paid them well, turned a blind eye as to how and now that it has crumbled everyone talks about what  &Y#&*#&* these guys are. They only did what idiot naive and greedy people wanted them to do and empowered them to do by joining in. I do feel sorry for all the people that lost savings, jobs and shirts so some people could drive ferrari's and act like hot shots for a couple of years. if fraud was perpetrated they should go to federal prision. Let them take the sacrement there, lol

Does anyone know anything about Noveau Riche?

There is alive recorded conversation at www,FranklinSquireslawsuit.com with the DIRECTOR of the Division that is currently investigationrick Koerber and Franklin Squires.  It looks like a great site with a lot of information including the live call.  That says it all boys..

The URL IS HERE
 

Paisola your phone call proves nothing.  If they had a case against FS they'd have already done something.  Just because you are a convicted felon by way child porno and financial malfeasance it doesn't mean everyone else is of your same moral depravity.  We know you did some time in the joint, why are you so determined that everyone share in this same type of misery.  I think you are a disgusting individual. 

That is what I was saying people are accusing them but I would think that if they were involved like apparently a number of other organizations in Utah County are esp amongst LDS than they would have already had charges brought against them and so forth or declared bankruptcy. Unless people have specifics I think we should give franklin squires the benefit of the doubt. That being said I would pull any money I had invested with them just in case, but would presume they are innocent until proven guilty. 

Easier said than don John, I have been asking for all of my money for THREE MONTHS!!!!!!!!! I have been told that there is a PPM in place but nothing has been done yet.  I'll give franklin squires the benefit of the doubt when Hell freezes over which we all know will never happen.  Thats all i've been asking for is my money back, which whom i invested it does have a secured note with FS, but that seems to do no good. Claud Rick Koerber is a piece of dog shit.

Wade Slaeter moved out of the home he was living in on Saturday.  Of course the home wasn't titled in his name so some sorry sap will have a foreclosure on their record.  His right hand man Nelson moved out of his home two weeks ago, same deal.  A couple of his other guys have bailed out of homes also.  Yes, all of these guys drove 100K cars and had 20K wrist watches etc.  I know that Slaeter had 32K invested in a fund that you know hundreds of people lost retirement savings etc.  His father was down here for 3 weeks trying to find out where some money went that one of his close family friends from WA lent to him for "investments" 300K I think??  Dad had no idea??  Hot shot wasn't who he seemed to be......Unfortunately there are fathers out there beating there children because they are in bad moods because they have no food on the table, can't pay the mortgage and have no retirment because of Slaeters false promises and lies.  ALSO - don't listen to these guys cry that are in the line of "we lost 200K of equity because we gave the money to Slaeter" These fools over appraised the homes, skimmed the equity and could never sell the homes for what they are worth.  It is the lender who will lose the money when the home forecloses!!  Sorry but I don't have any sympathy because the housing mess in part is because of these types of equity strippers.  People don't realize how many properties and how many of these people are out there.

annon, could you clarify what you meant when you said slaeter had 32k invested in a fund that you know hundred.....  thanks!

Wade Sleater wasn't half as smart as people/investors thought he was. He was a pathetic businessman, a scammer and a con man. (not to mention compulsive liar) It's obvious he has been out of control and imploding for months, but investors couldn't wait to give him their money.  

Okay, so you don't like Robert Paisola--fair enough. Although I definitely question his motives, character assassinations are not necessary. If he's lying you should be smart enough to say why his is wrong rather than stoop so low. Go ahead everyone, listen to the phone call--I think it is interesting at the very least.

Rick Koerber and Gabe Joseph have been making interest payments again. All you have to do is stop by the office and get your PPM set up properly.

Hey, is 12 Daily Pro still around? We should all invest in that. I guarantee we could make like 46 percent a day doing that. Visit 12dailypro.com and register today. It is risk free.

Yeah you only started hating Sleater when the money stopped flowing.  It's good you've stuck to such noble principles.  You are a fair-weather producer.  Sleater will be back and you'll all wish you hadn't abandoned him.   I'm sure when the money flows you slither back, slap some shoulders, and ask for a job.  Too bad you failed this test of loyalty.  The Pinnacle turn-coats have probably saved themselves from immediate hardship, but I rather have financial problems than be labled disloyal.  "Backstabber" is hard rep to shake especially when you just moved to another sugar daddy when the going got hard.  This whole thing reminds me of the book.  D'anconia will be back.   

I know most of the people in the group you are referring to (except those in WA) and not one of them is crying about losing "200k in equity".  The only home that is being foreclosed is Wade's and that's pretty normal for a bankruptcy.  The values have also increased so the lender will be fine and if he isn't so what.  That's why the home is therel.
 

Sure some people lost some money and may have to tighten their belts for a while, but I think you are not principled in exaggerating and spreading lies.  Do you like to see other people struggle/fail?   People who took actions that led to them living off investments did so against principle.  Hopefully everyone will learn from this.  All I know is that everyone did pretty damn well for quite a long time.  Nothing lasts forever.  Sell the house, the toys, downgrade the autos etc.  Take that money and live a simpler life and enjoy your families if you got em.       

Do you really think it's appropriate to joke around about beating children?  Maybe you think this is all the end of the world but that kind of comment is extremely offensive to some people.  You should think before saying something so dumb.  

It's funny how everyone critisizes a person when he is down. A lot of investments go south. If you are not willing to take hits don't invest. It's funny how everyone loved the investment on the upside but when it slowed down it was a scam. Get educated....then invest. You have to be willing to take the ups and downs of every investment you make. Send the investment fairy over this dudes investment isn't going as well as he thought it would. When you invest accept the fact that things can slow down and at times go away. It's part of investing.

joseph, if rick is making interest payments, how come i dont have mine for three months. maybe its different through Founders Capital, and the person that i invested with but i have seen no money for three months, principal or interest. could you please explain how the PPM works and what i do next, THANKS

I have the unfortunate position of knowing about Wade Sleater and Atlas Capital from and insiders perspective. I know more than I want to know about the real estate, the fast cars, the deceit and the greed. At the end of the day the blame rests on everyone. Yes, Wade is dishonest, unethical, uneducated and arrogant. Yes, he lied and manipulated people to get wealthy. Yes, he will walk away from a large portion of the mess unscathed. I am sure he will have his own sizable problems to deal with, and I hope that justice does it work so that he does not have the chance to scheme again.

I also have to blame myself and so many unfortunate others who thought they could beat the system and get rich quick. It is pretty stupid to think you can make 3% a month on your money for any prolonged period of time. I should have listened to my economics teacher. In short, we all lose and negatively impact others because we were damn greedy.

That being said, I think Wade and his accomplices should go to jail. They did in fact break all sorts of laws. According to several corporate attorney's I have spoken with, it is just a matter of time.

It's not at all stupid to think you can make 3 percent per month for a prolonged period of time. I have been making 6 percent on my money for the last 4 years. And yes there are risks associated with it and those are risks I am willing to take.

To Anon:

 Let's see, the truth is that Wade's house actually HASN'T increased in value but has actually DECREASED.  It was already mortgaged to the hilt and he was upside down with it. 

 Yes, maybe his home is being foreclosed on, but alot of the other homes owned by the group will eventually be foreclosed on if they don't sell.  You ever tried selling a house that you're upside down in and a short sale at that?  Yeah, doesn't work as well.

 And to those "Producers", give me a break.  Principles this, principles that.  Freaking Free Capitalists are the biggest bunch of losers that exist.  You ever ask a Free Capitalists a question and actually get a straight answer? 

Question: "Is this coat red?" Answer: "Yes" 

Free Capitalist Answer; "Well, lets see.  First off, why are you aking if the coat is red?  Do you have any association with the coat?  Did you invest money with the coat? Did someone tell you the coat was red?  If we look at the word red, we can see that it has three letters.  It starts with a "R" and ends in a "D" and has a "E" in between.  So really, the question isn't "Is the coat red", it should be, "Who was wearing the coat and you should know the coat is making it's payments and hasn't taken on any investors in more than two years.  

 Seriously, it's very sad what's going on.  You've got to remember that these guys have families and young children.  I agree with other people in that the people investing should have known things were shady when these outrageous returns were promised. 

The saddest thing is that Wade and his bunch would have been just fine if he would have stuck with Dish.   

Does Rick Koerber still have his radio show?

I also received my payment from Founders Capital last month. I keep hearing that people aren't getting paid their interest. I have been getting mine.

A lot of haters on this blog WOW. I hope nothing bad ever happens to you. Karma is a prostitue. Remember that these guys are human beings. They have blessed a lot of lives. A lot of lending companies have gone under making real estate very tough right now.  A lot of builders and lenders have gone out of business. Let things cool off. You accomplish nothing by running for the hills.

nice comment lee.  these guys "blessing alot of lives".  well put??  you definately have a bizarre perspective.

Has anyone heard about this press release from the Utah Securities Department? Click the link....very interesting. Does anyone have any information on this?

http://securities.utah.gov/press/bouchard.pdf 

I have a hunch I know a few of the people on here bagging on Sleater, and frankly it's amazing to see how many of you will kiss the guy's ass when he's paying you an outrageous salary for being part of his "team" only to cower and run when the going gets tough. Half of the people that seem pissed off were his flipping advisers and they left him holding the bag. What a joke.

Going back to franklin squires so they are paying the monthly interest checks? The question I have is what if people want 100% of their inestment back no additional interest is Franklin Squires able to do that? Yes or no ?

This reminds me of the whole Joseph Smith and the kirtland anti banking society with the followers of the charismatic leader (smith) getting pissed off as they lost their investments. Joseph was unethical and dishonest in the Anti bank though! it will be interesting to see how this all shakes out regarding the charismatic leaders of Franklin Squires and Atlas who both seem to have used some of Joseph's leadership tactics and motivational techniques
 

Thanks to Anonymous above for the Utah Securities announcement also see the newspaper's  http://www.sltrib.com/ci_7637345?source=rss

From the newspaper "    Klein said Bouchard, 48, and his company, Hunters Capital, were not licensed as required under state law but still solicited investor money from July 2005 to May 2007.
    State officials said investors were told that their money would be used to fund real estate loans and that Hunters Capital was paid a high rate of return by another company called Founders Capital. In some cases, new investor money was used to pay earlier investors in a ponzi scheme, Klein said.
    He said the case also could be considered a pyramid scheme because earlier investors were given a financial bonus to recruit other investors.  "
 

from the Utah Securities announcement " According to charging documents, Bouchard and his company, Hunters Capital,
approached investors between July 2005 and May 2007 with the following offers:
investor’s money would be used for hard money loans to buy real estate in exchange for
promissory notes, investors could get their deposit back with a 30-day written notice,
investors would receive a 3-4% return per month on their investment with Hunters
Capital and they would be eligible for a 1⁄2% commission on new investor referrals. 
Victims were also told Hunters Capital sent investor funds to Founders Capital, of Utah
County, which paid Hunters a high rate of return.  One victim was told his investment
would be used to purchase homes when in fact his second deposit of $130K was used to
pay off two previous investors. To date, Hunters Capital has not purchased any real estate
with any of the victim’s investments. 
 
Investors are urged to contact the Division of Securities to make sure anyone offering
investments is licensed, by calling (801) 530.6600, 

Is Founders Capital affiliated in anyway with Franklin Squires and or Claud Rick Koerber? 

If it is that would be very bad news for the Franklin Squires group as according to the schmuck involved in Hunters Capital his lawyer makes it look like he will be a prosecution witness which means he is not the big Kahoona see the statement of the legal council below:

"My client has agreed to work with the state and has been compliant. The best way to assist the investors is to make an arrangement with the state that will avoid any type of prison sentence for my client," he said.

From this website it appears there is an allegation that Franklin/Rick/Founders are affiliated 

From http://www.wasatchwatcher.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=313 there is an allegation that Founders is affiliated with Franklin and Mr. Koerber.  

 September 12, 2006. Each of these businesses, all located at 85 East Bay Boulevard in Provo, gave $5,000 to PCE on that date: Founders Capital LLC, Hill Erickson LLC, Franklin Squires Investments LLC, McGuire Group LLC, and New Castle Holdings. Some other individuals and businesses are shown in that report giving $5,000 to PCE on that date, and one of them is Rick Koerber of Springville, who is apparently the owner of all of the businesses I just listed.
 

I have a question.  You defenders of Sleater say he was "left holding the bag" and that he was victimized by his advisers.  Wade was always the one in charge.  He had his hands in everything (like being the CEO of everything)  Where does the buck stop?  I can't believe someone is trying to place some of the blame back on the employees, who in this case are most of Sleater's victims.  If it's not Wade's fault whose is it?  It doesn't seem like Wade was taking anyone's advice  Unless you have have the who and what or proof to back those claims up you should STFU.  Otherwise you Atlas boyz better go back to rimming Sleater. 

Is the Donohoe Group involved in any of this?  I thought that they were somehow connected or he broke away from them.  Anyone?  The guys name is Patrick Donohoe.

Larry Hinton, just a quick question. Is your investment directly with Founders or is invested through a holding company? and what is the name of that company? just wondering because you are one of the few people that are receiving any kind of payment and i sure would like mine. thanks

I have a couple family members that invested with Wade Sleater.   And now are being told to sit tight as he liquidates assets to pay back investors.   Does anyone have any idea how long this 'investing' was going on for?
How much money he took? He also owns a Dish network sales company-Atlas Communications.   Is that company now  'bankrupt' as well?

 

Here is the web site for the FreeCapalist blog....and it is for the first time I have notice "unavailable"   hmmmmm?  See galtsgulchforum.com

Does anyone know where Wade is now?
 

I can't believe all of you can feel good about just blaming Wade.  I have been around a lot of you and no one was complaining or concerned while they were driving their Porche, Audi, Mercedes, or when they wanted to go out on Wade’s boat.  Like a lot of the previous postings said, yes Wade may have done some unethical things, but where is your personal accountability?  Yes it is said how many lives have been affected, but how many of you are just going to wait and jump on the next "get rich quick" scheme?  Go out and get a job and learn what it means to put in an honest days work for on honest days wage.  It is really refreshing.

It is amazing to me that some people don't get that sleater is a crook and deserves jail time.  The home that he lived in WAS NOT in his name, he scammed the lender, he scammed his investors until the end.  He spoke to Kyle Nelson about grabbing money for themselves while they still could.  Hundreds of people gave him funds on this ponzi scheme.  You can't buy homes and take out the equity to pay past investors just to strip the equity out of another home.  All the while, defrauding the lender you are borrowing from by over appraising the property to begin with.  Who gets left holding the bag?  The lender, and now it looks like the honest americans as Bush is providing a package to bail a lot of these people out.  Of course they aren't in the trenches and don't know what happened to the dough.....  Sleater is a CROOK, he does NOT care about his associates, he cares about his money.  Ask his so-called closest partners who are now gone because he abandoned them.  He kicked Nelson out of the house he had him in when things started going south.  You people who defend him, defend the right to commit crime.  Go work for Brad Kitchen...

annon,you have a funny command of the facts (er, lies).

this was written above and simply dumbfounds me...

I know most of the people in the group you are referring to (except those in WA) and not one of them is crying about losing "200k in equity".  The only home that is being foreclosed is Wade's and that's pretty normal for a bankruptcy.  The values have also increased so the lender will be fine and if he isn't so what.  That's why the home is therel.
 

Sure some people lost some money and may have to tighten their belts for a while, but I think you are not principled in exaggerating and spreading lies.  Do you like to see other people struggle/fail?   People who took actions that led to them living off investments did so against principle.  Hopefully everyone will learn from this.

 MY RESPONSE:  You people who don't think that these homes will forclose aren't living in the real world.  You have 24-27 year olds living in million dollar homes that were only able to pay for them because they gave Sleater false equity of 200K and he was paying them back 3% which is 6K per month.  This was in essence making there OPTION ARM payment.  Well - those option arms will adjust, the 2% has stopped coming in and since the homes were financed at 125% of REAL value, these homes WILL foreclose.  So for you boys that had the big house, the teenage wife going to the salon daily, the harley and the 100K auto.  Time to learn how to work, how to save and maybe explain to your wife why your moving into an $800 a month apartment and why the bill collectors are calling?  OH - and when you sleep at night, think about the 60 year old that saved for 20 years for that 200,000 equity that he paid down and you stripped out of his home and threw away knowing that he would never see it again.  Think about Sleaters lifetime family friend that was promised he would see his 350K that can't pay his employees, that money never came from home equity.  This guy has no conscience.  He was partying at the Jazz game in the box with his follower groupies while some of his seething investors wanted to walk up and punch him out the other week.  He cares not!!

Is the sky falling?  Maybe if all your exaggerations were true it would be.  You say that 24-27 year olds are living in million $ homes will be foreclosed on.  This is not true.  You are either lying or talking about a different group of people (maybe Franklin Squires).  I won't say that some of these people will have higher payments as will millions of other Americans.  They will cope.  Most of them have already found jobs and will be fine. 

Whose house other than Wade's is going to be foreclosed?   Anything you would say would be nothing more than a guess.  You should stop pretending you know things you don't.   If these "seething investors" were really at the Jazz game they can't be too bad off themselves.  

Besides, any idiot knows you don't take out equity loans or risk money you don't have to make investments with a company like Atlas.  High risks, high returns,  you played and you got burned.  Tough luck.  Go whine to someone else. 

It is all a ponzi scheme.  Take in the money that investors are giving you and send it right back out as "interest" to them.  When the people stop sending money in the payments stop going out.  There needs to be some sort of other revenue generator and it seems that either there never was one, or the thing never got off of the ground.  This is a sad situation for all investors involved who have lost their life savings, but buyer beware! 

It don't take being the head cashier at Wal-Mart to know that if there is more money going out than coming in, YOU HAVE PROBLEM and that someday it is all going to go belly up!  

 If there truly was some criminal activity here it will all be discovered in the end and the appropriate parties will end up holding the bag at the end of all this.

 The sky is falling.  When hundreds of people stop receiving their payments and notice that they are going to be losing a lot, to them the sky is falling big time.  
 

Want a fact? Nobody knows all the facts.  Not Wade Sleater, not the guys at FranklinSquires, and certainly not a bunch of people who lost money in the deals.  There are far too many hands mixed up in this to sort it all out without a serious investigation by the Government and I highly doubt everyone involved is being honest with everyone.  If they were you wouldn't be hearing so many rumors. (Though if you want another, today is the first time in months that I haven't seen an excessive number of expensive sports and luxury autos parked in front of FranklinSquires offices, not saying anything, just found it interesting).

Those defending anyone who has broken the law (and there are some that have, I'm just not going to name names) is either clueless (not necessarily an insult as I myself don't know it all and are therefore clueless in some matters) or is an accomplice.  Even if you are one of the crooks best friends it is unlikely you will ever know everything that has transpired.  Likewise even if you think you have all the facts I am quite certain you don't know half of what you think you know.

annon,

Where are you pulling these accusations out of?  We all know that what Wade did was was wrong and alot of good pople will lose money but you seem to be taking this awfully personal.  How much does he owe you?  Or did he get your sister pregnant or something?

It seems there are some people here who could help me out.  I have a few questions about Atlas Marketing and Atlas Capital:

1) Who were the managers/executives of Atlas? 

2) Did Atlas Marketing run independent of Atlas Capital or were they operated w/ the same people?
 

3) Who were the people in charge of accounting at both places?

4) Were interest payments made by Atlas Capital sent through the mail?

    (a) If sent through the mail whose signature was on the checks? 

5) What was the process by which people invested money with Atlas Capital?  Did the meet w/ a particular person? 

6) What were investors of Atlas Capital told would be done with their money?  

7) Were investors sent statements or documentation of any kind?

8) If investors had questions or made a request to withdraw their money who did they talk to?  

9) Is there any property or items that were purchased with Atlas Capital funds that could be easily hidden?  (precious metals, jewelry, art work, collectibles, memorabilia, vehicles in another's name etc) Or was it every apparent that large sums of cash were being held by Atlas Capital or its principals or agents? 

Thank you.

Sounds like Annon is getting a little concerned on making his payment for his house and sports car :(

Try Sleaters watch collection - I know his group was selling anything they could that was under the radar a couple of weeks ago to get some free cash.  OH and -  Sleater supporters, keep up the smiles and slaps on the back,  please also call the attorney general and the other investigators and let them know what you may know so you may be able to help the little old lady that lost her retirement.  You guys are blind, I am not an investor, never lost money.  I know of people who did, heard the stories and know the guy.  The entire deal stinks and what he did to and with these people stinks...  The free capitalist crap stinks and all the trust me I'm your home teacher, your money is safe crap is unbelievable.  It is no wonder that Utah County breeds fraud....turn your head to this kind of thing but then pay your tithing and all is well.  How do you sleep at night?

Pay your tithing that is the best one yet you are aewsome. Talking to people from other states, they think that mormons are the most dishonest people that they have dealt with but put it to them they sure can get your trust and get the deal done cant they

other people have been affected by this too. the investment group ockham was hit hard and there was between 5-8 million invested with Wade through about 60 different regular joes, not millionaires. this is far reaching and it would just be nice to know what is going on. we were affected greatly and we make less than 100k, it was our life savings. we have 2 homes and they are foreclosing. not saying this for sympathy but we were naive and for lack of better term "stupid" and decided to go with this. my family had hard money invested as well and we all lost it.

 investing is a risk no matter how much they tell you it is secured. we lost 65k but for us that is a lot. tough lesson and hard credit hit.

Bottom Line?  Manipulating appraisals + ponzi scheme + equity skimming = FRAUD. Slice it, dice it, spin it how you want but it don't change the facts, man.

It doesn't take entrepreneurial genius to commit fraud. You lie, sucker others in with greed, and then pretend you're a great guy. You falsify loan applications by overstating your income. Deep down, you know that is true. You just thought you could ride it out for a while.

 I mean, what did you THINK was going to happen? Unfortunately "you can't get just a little bit pregnant".

This wake-up call is the best thing that can happen to those 20-something yr olds and their suddenly poor-house bound wives. They were on the road to ruin anyway, at least they're young enough to start over. Maybe they'll even grow some ethics and try to help those they burned. 

You ain't feelin' so funky now.

Annon - so you really talked to people from other states? Really? Wow!  Try LIVING outside of Utah and you'll get your facts straight. Those outside of Utah generally consider Momons to be VERY honest in business. It's the Utah mormons duping other utah mormons that gets the bad rap.

Get that chip off your shoulder some other way... but get a reality check first.

Wade took everything to a new level.  Let me tell you another.  He had what he called "credit card investors" who he conned into allowing him to use their credit cards to pay for expenses of Atlas Marketing so that they could get the points to use for trips and other things.  Sounds good as long as they paid the bill, but when you have to pay 3% to 4% to your ponzie scheme the person left in the end gets screwed.  Well, the "credit card investors" are stuck with around $2 million of credit cards that wade didn't pay.  He paid his off but left everyone else holding the bag and many of these people were parents of the 20 somethings and are going to lose everything.  I have never received a dime from wade or any of his cronies but have seen the destruction that he created.  He knew what he was doing, he just cared more about his image as a success and didn't care that he was stealing.  Pure and simple.  Wade and his cronies need to go to jail!!!

And all of you who defend wade and talk about that there was risk.  Wasn't one of the myths of the producer revoultion high return required high risk?  Well, now we see that their myth is the basis of capitalism?  Wierd, that the "free capitalists" didn't know the first thing about capitalism.  But then, had they said that high return require high risk no one would have given them any money.  Do any of you really believe that wade didn't purposefully create this whole fraud????

With all this talk about "Wade and his cronies" I have one question:  WHO ARE WADE'S CRONIES?  I can't seem to believe this is all just one person.

Anyone?

For a while I was like WTF is up with these gullible 20-something jackasses?  But after reading about parents who were "credit card investors" it's all making more sense.  Credit card investors?  If this isn't a contradiction in terms what is?  

Who's got an 'in' w/ Kyle Nelson?  I'd be very interested to hear what he has to say personally.  Anyone consolidating names to formalize a complaint to the Utah Attorney General?

What I can't beleive is that he still has his followers.  I guess I can....reason is, they are still perpatrating these types of scams in other areas.  Here is one for you - the hammer is starting to come down, daddy is in town trying to find out why his long time friend has been scammed and isn't getting his money and sleaters wife says, "can't we just down size"?   These guys used the black american express cards to finance sleaters debt - they also had the ponzi scheme with the fancy cars.  This guy would have scammed a sno cone shack if he would have had the time.  All I can say is the law needs to come down fast and hard on this guy or he will hurt people again. 

Can someone name names other than Wade and his buddy Kyle?  We should expose these guys for who they are and not allow others to be swindled.  Put the names out there.  Just post the names on this annon board and the rest of us will do the work!

 Also name the company names that are affiliated with all of this.  I know that there are a ton of different companies out there and they should be exposed as well.

 Thanks!
 

A snow cone shack with an appraised value of $375,000! 

Here is a portion of an article written on Sleater:    

Atlas' success led Sleater to start and invest in about 20 businesses that now employ more than 1,000 people. Source XII is the parent company of these businesses, or subsidiaries, including: Atlas Marketing Group; AMP Gym, an athletic and health training facility headed by former football star Dave Stroshine; ISM Films, a developer of online filmmaking courses; COPIA Ventures, a real estate development and marketing firm; and many others. Sleater's role for each business varies from shareholder to CEO.

"Atlas, our personnel mill, allows us to plug recruits into all of the businesses I've created," Sleater says. "People come to us not only for potential funding, but also for intellectual property to start a business. We call ourselves human capitalists. We're leveraging human intelligence to create maximum production."

What can't you live without?
"My family and friends."

Who is your biggest mentor?
"Dennis Webb."

Who are the cronies that everyone is talking about?  By who I mean the actual names of these people.  They are just as guilty as Wade and Kyle.  I agree with the person who wants more of the names of these low life scums released. 

Believe it or not Wade was the one calling the shots on EVERYTHING. He was a one man show.  He manipulated his employees in the same way he manipulated his investors. People who worked for him had no idea the extent of his deceite, they were victimized as well.

This is serious business.  Naming names could ruin the reputation of potentially innocent people.

Insider: 

Part of what you say is true. Wade did have a hold over most of his employees but there were TONS of other guys who knew EXACTLY what was going on and what needed to be done.  Everyone knew what they were doing when they found their "investors" for the properties they purchased. 

 But again, Where's the accountability from those people who more likely than not had some feeling that "hmmm, maybe we shouldn't be donig this" and "This seems too good to be true."  And for the person above who has accepted the responsibility, how in the world could you have invested your "life savings" in something with this high of risk??  You don't deserve to get your money back if you were that naive. 

 As far as foreclosures go, it takes awhile for the whole foreclosure process to happen.  To the post above who said that these homes won't go into foreclosure, WAKE UP IDIOT!  All of these guys already had rates around 9%-11%.  How in the world do you think they're going to pay for that without the ponzi money.  That's why most everybody else have left their homes or are trying to unload them, QUICKLY!! 

To A little help please. Sounds like you're some type of investigator looking to compile a list of charges.  Do some research.  It's not that hard

Name names?  I suspect that many of the guilty folks you allude to lost money as well and are now assuming the status of "victim" publicly and perhaps even writing (and complaining) on this board.  Those guilty of fraud and/or ethical lapses seldom (if ever) see themselves in that light, even if tried and convicted.  Those who help the fraudster, admittedly often unwittingly, don't see themselves as part of the problem.  One thing for sure, they could be part of the solution if they chose to be, but few will tell the whole truth for fear of exposing their own culpability, either to themselves, those around them or publicly. 

Let's face it, we all know that this board is most likely being monitored by those who would exact punishment (both angry/helpless investors and law enforcement), leaving many posters cautious about their posts, protecting themselves or perhaps those they still number as friends.  My hope is that everyone involved will show a little courage and tell it like it is.  I agree w/ "be smart", above, that names should be used only when the facts can be publicly referenced, but surely some use of names is appropriate, and this board could be a decent source of facts if used properly.  Relate your experience, post it in detail, use names where appropriate, psuedonyms where it's not, outline the processes, the flow of $, the actual "deals" and sales pitches.  Can you handle the truth?  Can you tell it?   

For an "outsider looking in"  you sure have intimate knowledge.  A quote from his wife? You know about his Amex card?  His watch collection.  His Daddy's "long time friend".   It sounds like you were in on it.

I am not an investigator, I'm just trying to get my head around what happened.  There are people here who by their claims or by their information show they have detailed info about the companies.  It also seems that some people here are those who probably did some of the deception too (they are the ones begging the others not to name names).  Of course they would say that.  It's to their advantage to direct all the criticism to Sleater.  It's just funny how obvious they are about it.  I guess they'll spill their guts when the time comes. 

 From what I do know, there are very few real victims in the mess.  Between the scammers and the scammed, what's the difference.  They were all mixed up with each other in all sorts of strange business contortions. 

What I think needs to be flushed out however, is who were the ring leaders.  Who knew better?  Who had a responsibility to stop it?  Who enabled it all?  I have a hard time believing it was all perpetrated by one or two individuals. 

I guess the anonymity on an anonymous internet board isn't sufficient.  If that's the situation you're all in deeper shit than you think.  Sorry to interrupt--back your scheduled jagoff session. 

Wow, looks like when "A little help please" doesn't get what he wants he takes his toys away and storms off.  What is a jagoff session anyway?

 Just because people on here know what was going on doesn't make them guilty also.  They probably chose not to participate.  

I do agree with you on the point that their are few victims here.  And yes, people were loving life when the interest payments were coming in, but then became victims once things turned south.  The only possible victims are the people way downstream.  With the Ponzi scheme, all of Wade's buddies were pretty much put in charge of finding other people to add to the scheme.  Obviously it served them in two ways. The monies obtained were used to cover interest payments to them and then it added to their percentage that they would get the next month.

 As far as ring leaders, "Franklin Squires or Founders Capital have not taken on any investors nor has anyone been allowed to invest with them in over two years."  This is probably true, but everything flowed in one direction.

Jagoff session: Is an gathering of people where everyone is saying "I'm an insider I know" and they go back and forth without actually saying a damn thing.  

All the people harmed by this scam would be a lot better off if they'd start putting the pieces the have together so they could actually know what happened to their money and jobs. 

Bill, I can't believe you would try to bring Franklin Squires/FC into the discussion w/ Atlas.  I know they were affiliated w/ Engenuity for a while but association does NOT equal guilt.  They parted ways several months ago.  Last time I heard Rick was making the payments, hadn't shut down his business, and is still on the radio.  While Rick may have hit a few liquidity snags, the ponzi described w/ atlas is a whole different ball of wax.    
 

I will bring Rick into this because.  

 What do you know about it?  You say they parted ways several months ago?  Do tell...

The things Atlas was doing is the SAME thing Franklin was doing.  Maybe not the ponzi scheme, but it got started from learing from Rick.  Franklin Squires will go into a neighborhood, buy a few homes, pass them back and forth to inflate the value and then take out the equity.  Hmmm, what do they do with the money they skim?  

Wow, I can't believe you are coming in here DEFENDING Rick.  Wade was doing illegal things, but you think Rick isn't doing illegal things?  You just lost any credibility you had.  

Wow Marky Mark what a name so you like yhose boy bands do you? I have lived in other states for a total of 10 years!! you go to Houston and ask those Souther Baptist about Mormons!!!, then get back to me OK. Not a chip on my shoulders just the facts man just the facts.

To "A little help please". 

You've been pleading for info and pushing for names on this board and as soon as somebody interjects one you do your best to shut him down?  You can either stick w/ the narrower truth that you willing to accept or you can accept that there may be more to it than that and be willing to listen and then judge for yourself.  I suggest the latter if you are really interested in having people open up here. 

Here's a name - Garrett B Gunderson.  I believe he was getting a % off some of the investors he brought to the table.  Are there other investors who would like to divulge who recommended this investment to them?  What is the linkage between Engenuity and Atlas (if any)?

I wouldn't bring names into this. It isn't wise, and you can bring a lawsuit upon yourself for libel. It happens all the time. IP addresses are tracked.

"Names" above is right about IP's being tracked and the potential for a libel suit.  Unless you know something to be true it's not at all wise to post about it. 

Here is a quick primer on Libel from the Media Law Resource Center (meidalaw.org) (Note: this post should not be considered legal advice and is for educational purposes only.  This poster is not an expert and sill not be held liable for misuse of the information  If you require legal advice such advice should be sought from a competent legal representative such as a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction):

What is Libel?

Libel and slander are legal claims for false statements of fact about a person that are printed, broadcast, spoken or otherwise communicated to others. Libel generally refers to statements or visual depictions in written or other permanent form, while slander refers to verbal statements and gestures. The term defamation is often used to encompass both libel and slander.

In order for the person about whom a statement is made to recover for libel, the false statement must be defamatory, meaning that it actually harms the reputation of the other person, as opposed to being merely insulting or offensive. 

The statement(s) alleged to be defamatory must also have been published to at least one other person (other than the subject of the statement) and must be "of and concerning" the plaintiff. That is, those hearing or reading the statement must identify it specifically with the plaintiff.

The statement(s) alleged to be defamatory must also be a false statement of fact. That which is name-calling, hyperbole, or, however characterized, cannot be proven true or false, cannot be the subject of a libel or slander claim.

The defamatory statement must also have been made with fault. The extent of the fault depends primarily on the status of the plaintiff. Public figures, such as government officials, celebrities, well-known individuals, and people involved in specific public controversies, are required to prove actual malice, a legal term which means the defendant knew his statement was false or recklessly disregarded the truth or falsity of his statement. In most jurisdictions, private individuals must show only that the defendant was negligent: that he failed to act with due care in the situation.

A defamation claim -- at least one based upon statements about issues that are matters of public interest -- will likely fail if any of these elements are not met.

Well this we all know for sure, if you went out and solicited or invited people to put their money into a fund and you were paid to do it, you better be registered with the government and dotted your I's and crossed your T's or it is securities fraud.  From what I have heard wade and others were paying 4% a month with usually 3% going to the "investor" and 1% being paid to the upline.  Wake up everyone, if you participated in rasing the atlas money and you were paid to do it you broke the law.  Now, the law frowns on anyone who raises money improperly, but when they lose their money and their was not only technical infractions but out and out fraud like we have here they eventually investigate and prosecute.  However, you should all know that nothing will happen for months and even years with Wade and the others becuase the authorities have such a full case load in front of them that I bet the Atlas case hasn't even been opened yet. 

I differ in the opinion that naming those involved with Atlas is libel.

I'm not saying they are all crooks simply by association, but, without a legitimate insider willing to step forward, how else do we shed light on the overall structure of the Atlas hierarchy?

Additionally, it isn't a crime in and of itself to get paid on commission, so I'm not trying to 'defame' Garrett (for all I know, he may have thought this was a legitimate deal), but it could help us get information closer to the source if others have also invested with similar Atlas partners.

Yes your shaking in your shoes aren't you?  You're afraid that someone knows something and is going to let the cat out of the bag.  Why else would you go to so much effort to chill this discussion.  Could you be any more transparent in your motives?  The use of the word 'primer' narrows the possibility of your identity.  You are manipulative assholes.  You think after all these people have been through you can continue the deception?  Is it just a coincidence that all of the forums controlled by the 'network' have been removed? 

LISTEN EVERYBODY, JUST TELL THE TRUTH.  IF YOU DON'T KNOW, DON'T SAY IT.  IF IT'S A RUMOR, DON'T SAY IT.  

HOWEVER, IF YOU DO KNOW, DON'T BE INTIMIDATED BY THESE CROOKS WHO WANT YOU TO KEEP QUIET ABOUT WHAT WENT ON.  (libel requires that what you write be untrue).  

To the person who posted as "To the Libel "attorney""

Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions.  I'm not inolved in this scam for the following reasons:

1. I don't believe in ripping off my fellow man.
2. I don't do business with members of the LDS church because of prior business dealings where I was ripped off.
3. I only invest in regulated securities (Stocks, ETF's, etc.) where I can be provided with a prospectus or Placement Memorandum prepared to meet all SEC requirements.

Despite what you think my vocabulary could never reveal my identity because as stated I am not involved in the scam.  I know people who are among the so called victims and have only been checking in here to print copies of the posts for the one that doesn't have Internet access.

I will admit my post was probably poorly worded in that I should have made it clear what my intent was in visiting.  I posted the information on what Libel is, not only to say that if you don't know for certain that someone was involved you could face a lawsuit as stated by the previous poster "Names" but  also to prove that there are several things that someone filing such a suit would need to prove in order to make their case stick.  If someone does have factual information they want to share they should.  I'm sure there is plenty of such information out there.  So please accept my apologies for not wording my response in a way that showed my intent and consider for a moment that you too may be wrong about some things.  I will keep my mouth shut moving forward and simply print the posts as was requested of me.

....back to who knew what and when! 

Many friends and family members of employees made "investments" in the company right up until the days before the collapse of the company. If any of the employees saw this coming I doubt they would have helped people they cared for throw their money away.

I could be wrong, but I believe that none of the employees (and maybe not even Wade himself)  understood the absurdity of investing or offering an investment in ANYTHING that claims to yield 3 or 4 percent per month. That high of a return on investment exists only in the Land of OZ.

Where were the accountants or finincial advisers on this one?  They had to know that somewhere things were not adding up.  I know they had accountants full time on staff. 

Here is a link i found by typing in "wade sleater" and performing a blog search in google. It is the top link that shows up with the interesting link text.  This guy, Dan, seems to have some first hand experience with Wade.    Appears that even some individuals that worked in the accounting department had no idea what was going on.

The link appears to be dead or incorrect but if you click on the

Dan - http://danswinyard.blogspot.com/  it takes you to his blog page

and then perform a search on his blog space for

http://danswinyard.blogspot.com/2007_11_01_archive.html

scroll down to "A Bedtime Story" november 10th.

And his blog on Novemember 5th "summer of 07"

Has anyone out there heard of Kimball Holdings LLC, and what they supposedly invested their money in?

I have wondered the same thing, where was the accountant in all of this mess. Surely he could see the big picture - even others didn't. Hummmmm, I am guessing there are lots of questionable accounting issues - such as...... income tax fraud?????

I could imagine the owners of some of these "Holding Companies" (and it's becoming clear that we're discussing a group of "Holding Companies" working similar business models with owners who are tied to each other by more than just being in the same industry by chance) doing some books themselves, the larger ones hiring a college student or two or even a recent grad to do their accounting, folks whose experience was insufficient to catch the type of financial machinations that may have been taking place.  Unless a firm like these is being audited I supsect the owners can exert a great deal of influence over the accountants/bookeepers whom the hire and pay and throw bonuses at without the accountants/bookeepers knowing the extent or implications of the books they are keeping. 

I know that some of the individuals involved perpetrated a fraud by selling thier homes to outsiders, with an agreement to deliver title somewhere down the road, investing that money at 3-4% with Atlas, Founders, Hunters or others, and continuing to make payments to the bank to avoid the "due upon sell clause" (that is in every mortgage).  I know for a fact that my relative learned this technique from one of Koerbers seminars.  From my perspective Mr. Koerber started this whole snowball, encouraged others to start thier own "holding companies", allow them to pass the money to his company (Founders), and then play innocent by saying that he isnt actually holding any individuals money, only the few holding companies he has accepted investments from.  The reason FranklinSquire will go down last is, he thinks he has shielded himself from prosecution by legally setting up his companies and putting out press releases stating that he does not accept money from individuals (listen to his past radio programs where disgruntled investors have called in). 

Marvin, that sounds the closest to the things I have heard from friends over the years.  Interestingly enough tens of millions of dollars seem to have been raised without a stitch of printed marketing material leaving a great deal of plausible deniability for anyone but the "downline investor" whose left holding the bag (the exorbitant loans taken out to fund all this). Here's a little conjecure (and bad spelling) as things MAY have occurred, in part.  I'm sure the actual events were much more complicated and may not have happened at all as I've imagined below, this estimate is therefore hypothetical.

I imagine an investment company, let's call it HardMoney Company, as a hard money lender charging above market rates to borrowers who are in need of alternative funding (non-bank) for time sensitive projects like land development and are willing to pay extra for it in the form of high "points" and interest rates.  A good business to be in, but to make such loans you need lots of unencumbered cash.  So below HardMoney Company I imagine a bunch of Holding Companies put together to gather up funds to be sent to HardMoney Company (or another investment), each Holding Company being "owned" by an individual who largely subscribes to the idea that real estate equity is useless until it's removed (through loans) and invested someplace (HardMoney Company would be one such place).  The owners of the Holding Companies go out to family, friends, acquintances, referals, seminar attendies, whatever, and find people willing to give them money to invest by extracting equity from their existing properties and/or proactively buying properties, having them appraised as high as possible, take out additional cash loans based on new appraisal, send these new loan proceeds to Holding Company, Holding Company sends it to an investment, perhaps like HardMoney Company, investment like HardMoney Company in turn pays money from it's legitimate projects back down-the-line to Holding Company, Holding Company pays money down-the-line to "investors", each level skims a little off the top from the actual investment proceeds being paid by HardMoney Company or other investment.  Even though the investment money in such a scenario is all encumbered at the investor level (is loaned by a bank against personal colateral), by the time it makes its way all the way to HardMoney Company THEY have no encumberances and can invest it however they want with no expectations of collateral or transparency, just agreements with the Holding Companies. 

All the debt being taken out by the downline investors to generate investment funds has to be paid by somebody and although that appears to have often been worked out by agreement so that the investor didn't always service their own loans to begin with, the downline investors are the names on the loans -- and as agreements disolve and interest payments stop the lowest guy on the totem pole is left with near all the liability and no longer is getting the interest payments to service the debts that (s)he incurred for the money they invested.  As it falls apart, if it falls apart, the investment company (like HardMoney Company) can say they didn't raise any funds, go talk to the Holding Company.  The Holding Company can say they didn't tell anybody to be aggressive on their valuations or their loans or to be less-than-honest on loan apps (there's no paper trail of how they solicited money), go talk to the investor.  The investor is dying a slow death as the leinholders get nastier and nastier in hopes of not having to foreclose on the collateral. 

Just an idea from what I'm seeing and hearing and it may be WAY off.  I'd love to hear it told by someone with real experience if there is such a person (again, I may be wrong), no need for names if you're not comfortable with them, but I really have no dealings with any of these entities and am just hypothesising. 

Do any of you that own these high end cars want to sell them?  I can pay $10,000 cash.  I am not picky about what kind, I just want a good deal. 

I have a 97' Accord that I would be willing to let go for $10,000.  It's real nice.  Let me know.

to the idiot above if you buy an item you know may have been purchsed illegally substantially under market value you not only are aiding and abetting criminal activity but I would imagine that you would loose the vehicle anyway as the creditors will show that it was unloaded illegally and unethically.  

So the founder // franklin  group seems to be a lot better off than Atlas from what everyone here is saying
 

There should be some equity left in the car i.e. equity strip.  The guy above apparently agrees that $10,000 for a 97' Accord is "substantially under market value".

If I quoted some of the founders and told you this is based on "principles" then would the car be more appealing?

Someone above mentioned Garret Gunderson as an investment czar as far as any involvement with Atlas I didn't see anything from his website he does have a pretty informative website I have in the interest of education copy and pasted how he says he makes money in real estate. 

"Garrett B. Gunderson now owns over 100 properties, acquired within a single year (when it had taken him over two years to acquire just 14 properties when he was using traditional investment strategies). Further, Garrett acquired these 100 properties with little out-of-pocket cost, and never used his own credit. These non-traditional strategies that focus on the principles of economic exchange are what allowed Garrett to acquire so many properties in such a short period of time. Now Garrett uses his own credit only when he can act as a bank to achieve cash flow, creating portfolio income without the use of his cash. He uses his properties as collateral to earn high interest rates from individuals seeking short-term financing to enter investment opportunities.

More importantly, Garrett understands how these investments contribute to his overall wealth creation blueprint. Garrett no longer chases return on investment exclusively, but instead understands that the secondary consequences of investments, such as tax savings and equity repositioning, are equally important considerations. Knowing how an investment fits within his macroeconomic objectives lets Garrett manage risk to near-zero.

Because he does not enjoy the business elements of real estate investing, Garrett still does not participate in the daily processes of identifying real estate investments, or managing real estate properties. He has never fixed a leaky toilet, or met most of his tenants.

Instead, Garrett has established win-win partnerships with other investors and real estate professionals, each contributing their unique abilities and resources to establish profit for all parties in these transactions. This partnership model creates interdependence, and increases the number and frequency of opportunities available to each person involved. Through his principled understanding of value creation, Garrett knows that by distributing profit among many individuals, everyone actually profits more.

Garrett earns hundreds of thousands of dollars in annual cash flow from real estate investments that many times require none of his own credit, and next to none of his time, personal energy, or attention. How is this possible, and what constitutes the difference between the hopeless scenario of Garrett’s earlier Las Vegas investment, and the profitability and ease of his current property investments?"

Total Crap!

I cannot believe anyone buys into this stuff.

Well, I can't believe anyone bought into your Ponzi scheme

Have any of Gunderson's investors lost their money?  As far as I knew he did not have any hard money investors in Founders.  

I just don’t see how someone can legally purchase over 100 homes without using their own Credit??
How is this done? Sounds like our hypothetical "Holding company" as noted earlier.

Free Capitalist discussion is still un-timely offline. hmmm


Here is a San Diego thread which Mr Koerber himself explains equity milling to someone concerned about the investment.

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/sdcia/vpost?id=1821780

I find it interesting that so much of the Franklin Squires New/info section is regarding practices they are NOT involved with. Why does a private capital/consulting company have to post this clarification/justification about themselves on the WWW?? If they are not involved, why post this type of info??

Read.
Alert- Equity automobiles
Alert- Holding funds and high returns
Alert: Investment Opportunities with FranklinSquires - Deception


 

Rick Koerber is still doing seminars, classes and his radio show. He is doing an event at American Founders University on January 11th. The theme is based around a guarantee to get your portfolio income high enough that it offsets your fixed monthly expenses. What does anyone out there know about American Founders University? How does it all work? How many people actually attend etc.

We were very concerned about the practices of our son  when selling Dishnetwork for Atlas. [Actually salesmen could sell either of two different satelite providers, leading to fraudelent convincing of subscribers of one system to switch to the other system.]  They never registered or got permits or licenses to sell from any local government; they were told that if anyone asked, just excuse yourself and go to the next house.  He tried to sell us a package and not one part of his sales pitch matched the printed contract we were  asked to sign.  Salesmen were treated as private contractors, so federal income, SS, and medic/are taxes not held out.  Compensation was handled so as to avoid any state income tax issue, regardless of state selling in.  This way of selling seemed so unfair to local established companies who were playing by the rules and therefore had much higher costs for selling and installing the systems.

They are located in East Bay Provo. They have different programs varying from teaching people about the constitution to real estate investing. They have open houses periodically for future students to check it out. Rick personally teaches a lot of the classes. They have been around for about a year now. I think they are somehow relatged to Kimber Academy which is elementary school through high school. Kids from Kimber often graduate at a pretty early age to get done with college pretty quickly. I think Kimber had a school in the Frankiln Squires building.

Round and round it goes. You can't stop it, baby. Selling snake oil is the oldest profession (well, second oldest) in the world. Today it's sleater, franklin squires, brad kitchen, et al. tomorrow its another name, but the same ol' product, same pile of crap, just packaged in a pretty new can.

There's a sucker born every second. And by sucker, I mean a guy who spends his life living frugal, paying down his house, no debt, no risk history - then some slick willie comes along and somehow convinces him to mortgage it to 150% of the value and take a pmt there is NO WAY he can afford, all for a crazy promise of riches and glory. Crazy it sounds, yet, the poor sucker buys it gift-wrapped and leaves with a smile.

And for these message boards... They're fun and all, but filled with too many idiots to be seriously productive. You cannot take anything seriously - especially with deluded "chip on their shoulder" bloggers just looking to get a rise out of people.

For those who defend the perps, using a weak defense of 'but they weren't trying to hurt anyone' need a wake-up call, cuz you're the next sucker. Why? because is does NOT MATTER whether they were TRYING to hurt someone. They were careless, thoughtless, and shelved their morals and ethics for fame and glory. They risked other people's money on a scam that had only one possible ending. THAT is the most dangerous type of crook, the ones that delude themselves.

Oh, and Vote for juanPEDRO for president, maybe he can make people like Uncle Rico Sleater stop ruining everyones life and eating all our steak.

So I saw the guy that runs Sleaters high end auto division taking pictures of all the cars that Sleater and company are still holding. He had them all cleaned up and was shooting the shots in front of Kyle Nelsons old house.  Had all of these 100K cars lined up and ready to sell to who knows??  Sleater and his gang have left the subdivision...Sleater and his three buddies with the big houses all gone in the middle of the night.  who is next?  He still has more of his groupies hanging in for now. 

what address is sleaters or Kyles old houses?

Who are Sleater's three buddies?  How did you find out they left in the middle of the night?  I doubt leaving under the cover of night would avoid any of the type of trouble he is in.  I was curious about that neighborhood because didn't a lot of the executives of Atlas live there?  

They all left in the middle of the day on a Saturday. Dumb asses don't know anything.
 

He and another 6 of his groupies all bought or should I say lived in homes at Canyon Cove Estates in Orem. He and 3 others have already bailed in last 3 weeks with more to follow?  Can't sustain a million dollar option arm mortgage when sugar daddy isn't sending you the payment on stolen equity from your lender.  Thing of it is, this is a great neighborhood which was swarmed by wanna-be twenty somethings and will be better off now that they are moving out.  You can pull title on these homes = public records and see that he and the others didn't even own the homes.....same old story, they took the money, left someone else holding the bag.  Other problem is the tax payers will end up paying with the Bush bail out plan.

I attended a seminar put on by FS at the Grand America Hotel around September of 2007.  I was invited there by a guy who was affiliated with him (who recently was in the newspaper charged with fraud).  My impression of Koerber at the time was that of someone who spoke a lot and said very little.   We were there for 3-4 hours while he droned on and finally got to his point about his program which seemd to be about using you as a person to buy a house and turn around and sell it at a profit.  There seemed to be almost a "cult of personality" among the audience (plants?) which I heard has become even more pronounced.  I never did invest with this offer.  The FS people also contacted me after the class and tried to put the hard sell on me to take the classes.

I know that the above posts are not directly about FS but my gut tells me that this is where it all started.  I don't do real-estate.  I am a health care provider so know very little about what he has tried to do.  Was it a typical Ponzi Scheme all the way? Or was there intent to invest and flip properties because of the hot real-estate market at the time.  I am just curious about it.  Can anyone explain it in 2-3 paragraphs?  I know Koerber never did and neither did the guy who tried to get me to invest in his holding company.

I am continually amazed at the amount of fraud that goes on in Utah County.

Sorry,  that was my post above.

from the franklin Squires website;

Inappropriate Reporting: Founders Capital has no connections to the
investors of Hunters Capital
Provo, UT December 6, 2007 – FranklinSquires Companies, LLC, in order to prevent inaccurate
assumptions, wants to address the mention of its portfolio company, Founders Capital, in several
local Utah papers, specifically an article in the Our Town section of the December 5, 2007 issue
of the Provo Daily Herald. The article, detailing the charges brought by the Utah Attorney
General’s Office against Paul Bouchard and his company Hunters Capital for securities fraud,
inappropriately referenced Founders Capital as a company to which Hunters investors believed
their monies were sent.
Founders Capital has no and never has had any connection, official or otherwise, to the investors
of Hunters Capital. Hunters Capital, while an investor in Founders Capital, is a separate,
autonomous business apart from Founders. Founders is an independent company and is not liable
for nor comprehensively aware of the business practices of its investors.
Founders Capital’s association with Hunters Capital is unrelated to Hunters association with its
investors. Media reports and other information releases such as the Provo Daily Herald linking
Founders to Hunters Capital investors in its article about Paul Bouchard’s business dealings is not
responsible reporting. FranklinSquires invites the Herald to be more professional and accountable
in the future for the product it delivers to the public.
In regards to Paul Bouchard, disagreeing with the manner in which these charges were brought
against him, FranklinSquires considers Paul Bouchard to be a good man, who despite his apparent
business missteps is not rightly viewed as a criminal and the regulatory process that brought
about this conclusions is beyond good public policy and beyond the appropriate measures of good
government.  For the sake of Mr. Bouchard and his investors FranklinSquires wishes him well
and express our confidence in his sincere determination to work diligently to repay his investors.
___________________________
 

FranklinSquires COMPANIES, LLC
OFFICIAL PRESS RELEASE
FranklinSquires Update: Embracing Change
Provo, UT December 7, 2007   – FranklinSquires Companies, LLC recently announced it has
undertaken and will continue to take significant strides in restructure specific aspects of its core
business and the business of a number of its portfolio companies. Foremost among these changes
include real estate, human resources and Free Enterprise Forums modifications.
Real Estate Changes.  In the past several months there have been serious challenges in the financial
marketplace related to the secondary residential mortgage market in the United States. The
impact of these challenges has affected several FranklinSquires portfolio real estate business. In an
effort to appropriately adjust to the current market environment, these real estate businesses have
reorganized in order to ensure their long-term survivability, grow their businesses and provide
a profitable return to their owners. Lindsey Dayton, Vice President of Equity MillTM Operations
states, “We’re highly confident the changes we’ve made will place us in a niche that will guide the
real estate marketplace.”
Human Resources / Personnel Changes.  All FranklinSquires employees are employed by
a separate company CRK Central Management, LLC and given specific assignments to
FranklinSquires corporate or one of its subsidiary or portfolio entities.  On the 6th of November
FranklinSquires founder and CEO Rick Koerber summoned a Company Meeting to discuss
several challenges facing the company as it has grown substantially beyond its founding with a
half dozen employees in 2004.  During his presentation Mr. Koerber announced that all current
employee assignments would end at 5:00 p.m. that very day.  While all employees who choose
to do so  would remain employed by CRK Central Management, LLC and the announcement
also indicated that each employee desiring to remain employee would have an opportunity to be
reassigned within the company.    
“I viewed this as a re-organization, not as anything else” said Koerber afterwards.  “All employees
were given an opportunity to be responsible for their continued employment. We had just reached
a point where many employees were not productively engaged on a day to day basis and change
was necessary for the health of our overall business.”  
As of date, ninety-two percent of employees have been re-assigned and remain employeed. “I was
very excited to hear about employment changes because I knew they would bring opportunities
for most employees to redefine their job descriptions and compensation packages in a manner that
 / 2
better aligns their talents, skills and wants,” states Steven Freestone, a FranklinSquires Executive
Vice-President. “I feel these changes place the company in a better position to move forward and
grow.”
Koerber’s announcement did not come as a surprise to many employees and was an effort to
become more efficient as an organization.  
Forum Changes.  The Company has previously developed, owned and administered membership
programs of various types.  Recently, through partnership with two of its portfolio companies
(Free Capitalist Enterprises, LLC and Producer Revolution Membership, LLC) changes have
been made to streamline and grow these membership offerings.  Previously called Free Capitalist
ForumsTM and  Producer Revolution ForumsTM, the forum program is now being consolidated
and renamed.  Replacing the old forums are Free Capitalist CouncilsTM (local civic service counsels
dedicated to shaping change in local communities consistent with the 3 Principles of ProsperityTM
and Faire Action ForumsTM (local study and civic action groups dedicated to studying the
principles of Americas founding generation and helping individual members become financially
self-reliant, economically independent and financially free).  
The newly organized Free Capitalist Councils, (with the first council organized in Utah County,
Utah) will begin holding Town Hall meetings every Thursday starting January 3rd 2007.  These
Town Hall meetings are for members of a community to meet together with members of the
Free Capitalist Project to discuss community and social change in an effort to work toward
improving their community. Town Hall meetings are open to the public. In an effort to also help
inform community members, Faire Action ForumsTM —are study groups where people have the
opportunity to study principles relating to self-reliance, economic independence and true freedom.
The restructuring of several aspects of FranklinSquires business and portfolio businesses,
according to company executives, has resulted in more efficiently run operations. They declare
morale is high at FranklinSquires as it embraces and tweaks the old adage, “The only thing
constant in business, besides the outcome of action based on principle, is change itself.”
Individuals interested in becoming involved in a Town Hall meeting or Faire Action Forum are
invited to contact jkimber@franklinsquires.com.  
FranklinSquires Update: Embracing Change

Looks like FS needs to hire a proofreader and a couple of writers. Not only are those press releases poorly written but they're full of grammatical errors and typos -- the biggest being the date of the new Town Hall meetings. January 3, 2007. Don't they mean 2008?

From the first press release: 

Media reports and other information releases such as the Provo Daily Herald linking
Founders to Hunters Capital investors in its article about Paul Bouchard's business dealings is not responsible reporting. FranklinSquires invites the Herald to be more professional and accountable in the future for the product it delivers to the public.

If you actually read the Daily Herald article, this is what it says:

The victims were also told Hunters Capital sent investor funds to Founders Capital of Provo, which allegedly paid Hunters a high rate of return, court documents said. One victim was told his investment would be used by Founders Capital to purchase homes when in fact his second deposit of $130,000 was used to pay off two previous investors. To date, Hunters Capital has not purchased any real estate with any of the victim's investments.

I have a hard time seeing how this is "not responsible reporting." (Side note: Don't they mean irresponsible reporting? Who the hell writes these "press releases"?) The reporter was just citing court documents and those who were scammed. All they said was what they were told their money was being given to Founders Capital when apparently it wasn't.  Can anyone at FS please explain how this is "not responsible" reporting?

typo is right.  What was said regarding the relationship between Hunters Capital and Founders Capital is from a Media Release directly from the Utah Department of Commerce.  There is no "irresponsible reporting" happening here. 

 Here is the link:

http://www.securities.utah.gov/press/bouchard.pdf

Hey Curious Lurker......how affiliated with Koerber was the guy that took you to the September event? 

I am the "Poor Sap" mentioned above who owns Wade Sleater's house.  I want to know as much as I can about this guy, I will answer any question anyone on here wants to know.  I never met Wade Sleater, but lent my credit on his dwelling through a guy named Rex Wheeler at The Ockham Group.  If anyone wants to know about Capital Leases, Bedrock Marketing (the hard money program paying 24%), how this had affected me and many others I will be happy to share what I can.  I am not a millionaire, and not LDS.  I do not need someone on here preaching about me enjoying the fruits of this while it was good as I didn't.  I had tried to divest myself from these people (and I use that term lightly) for a year, due to fraud and webs of people there was literally no way out.  Now my credit is ruined from their theft, my family and I have lost lots of money and I have lost all faith in the goodness and honesty of people.  I can tell you how I was introduced to them, and like many others it was through a network of Garrett Gunderson's. 
 

EquityMillTM 
Free Capitalist CouncilsTM
3 Principles of ProsperityTM 
Faire Action ForumsTM

...BullshitTM

PoorSap -

I agree that some of the investor blame spoken of earlier is probably making it difficult for vicitms to come forward.  As in all such schemes, there is probably a bit of embarrassment for some in revealing that they have been victimized.  As in the case of some of my relatives, some victims haven't come forward because they are still hoping for a payback of their principal "with interest".  However, before Wade and team are able to hide assets further or hurt others, I would STRONGLY suggest filing a complaint w/ the Utah Division of Securities (link below)...
http://www.securities.utah.gov/complaint_general.html

It would also be be beneficial if you could share your story with as much detail as possible, including names (individual & company), dates, sales pitches, etc.  As long as you are factual in your statements (i.e. keep in mind there could be involved 'downline' parties that may have truly been in the dark), there should be no risk of libel.  This could help other victims realize linkages between schemes and help them come forward with their own stories.

Would you mind divulging which house it was? I found several properties under Wade (most now appear sold or transferred to another party), but I'd be interested in researching other linkages where he might not be legally registered under the property.

sorry, - for above post...

Hey poorsap,

You should be able to enjoy your new pool Wade put in and the theater and the new 4th car garage. 

To intrigued,

The guy was Paul Bouchard.  I know people will laugh at my credulity, but how much of a victim or fall guy may he be?  That "cult of personality thing" was strong and he (RK) may have sucked in associates as well as investors.  I use the term victim loosely but you can be both victim and perpetrator in this mess. 

The above press releases my be their way of trying to dissociate themselves from the Hunters capital mess but they all must know each other quite well. 

I have been googling and following this for about 2 years now.  Honestly, I'm suprised it took this long to see the implosion and resultant fall out.   

I am not comfortable putting anything on here for obvious reasons.  I am not sure what these people would do to me if I made one misstatement.  I will say the house I am holding is in Orem and he moved out the last weekend of November.  I believe was his primary residence.  He had done some remodel work to it and not paid the contractors what he owed them and they are now due money.  There are liens on the the property because they haven't been paid so I am having a difficult time selling the house.  This is not the only house I am trying to get out from, it has been very difficult for me and my family.

 I am happy to share information privately if you want to know.
 

P.S.  As far as the pool goes, he hasn't paid for it.  It is unfortunate as these contractors are good guys from speaking to them on the phone.  I don't even live in Utah so I have never seen the pool.  All of you defenders of Sleater should talk to these contractors or myself, I will be happy to share with you another perspective that is the truth.  I did not work for him and would not know him if her were standing in front of me so don't blather about liking him when things were good.  I do not mean this to be a bash Wade Sleater post, I am just trying to figure out how I could have been so stupid to do any of this. 

Thanks for posting the Press Releases.  The focus of the PRs seems to be to tell people that they did nothing wrong, though some associates may have made errors on their own.  They also appear to be trying to create more layers of "business entities" between themselves and their investors, something they have done a lot of in the past, I believe to dilute and obfuscate any connections to the end-investor level and insulate themselves from liability.  It may work, it may not, it certainly has worked for them so far from a legal perspective, but their denials in the PRs do not ring true to the casual reader. 

Question raised by FranklinSquires Press Release:  If Founders Capital takes investment funds from Hunters Capital that Hunters Capital raised from individuals does Founders Capital have any connection to the investors?  Does the "transitive property" apply (if a=b and b=c then a=c)?  In my mind we would need to know a little more info such as whether or not Founders Capital knew how Hunters Capital was raising the money.  From what I can tell they not only knew but assisted them in creating the fundraising processes and mechanisms.  However, Founders Capital seems to have been very careful to never have any direct business dealings with them (contractual dealings).  I'm sure that wiser men than I are pondering this very point right now. 

They seem intent on saying that they've invested millions of dollars with no investors, employ dozens of people without any employees and own many businesses without any personal accountability for the actions of the businesses. 

Sorry to hear about your house PS.  Thanks for the info, I look forward to hearing more details. 

It seems that on a larger level you have learnt the hard way that greed, and being trusting sets yourself up for being victimized. What you and many people here have realized is normal and common I was also victimized in a similar fashion by a company called Comlink Capital, LLC http://www.comlinkcapital.com/ Ron Hansen although it was only $20,000! I know the FBI was investigating them and sent me and many other victim's letter's for us to fill out but I like many other's was afraid to fill them out because I didn't want to go to court as a gullible idiot! Their scam was they would right a grant for you and allow you through their contacts up to $10,000,000 (my money was in the form of a contractual deposit fully refundable with 30 days notice; I gave them notice and they never paid me the money back)  if you would do a business that provided benefit to society. It appears they are still in business. I like many here invested almost primarily because of a guy I knew at church that was doing it and was convinced it would make him rich. He actually sold his house and bought a large mansion because he had been "pre-approved" 6 months later after I hadn't got my "deposit" back I went to his new mansion he wasn't there but as it was an exclusive community his neighbor came and asked me what I wanted she gave me his new address and told me he had moved out about 3 months prior. His new address was a duplex (it sucked because he had like 7 kids) I assume he was renting. He later was pretty humble told me he was sorry and that they never materialized anything with him and that he lost his life saving's.
 

I hear all the time of bad deals and fraud.  I am now a victim and I trusted what I considered friends.  I don't know what will happen to them and frankly I don't care.  I am just trying to take care of myself.  I know that sounds selfish, but it is what it is.

P.S.  I am trying to find out personal histories of these people, Wade Sleater, Rex Wheeler, Garret Gunderson.  If anyone knows how long they have known each other, how long they have been in business together, how they are related, where they are now etc.  

Wade Sleater owned Atlas dish marketing and knew Les McGuire from his mission.  Wade owned the plane that Les was killed in.  I believe Garrett was also from the mission, but I know they were all involved together in the Prosperity Revolution or Igenuity, which was a possitive thinking group.  When Les was killed they had a public memorial.  In this meeting Rick Koerber announced he was fulfilling Les' long time dream to join the FranklinSquire company and Ingenuity.  Nobody else seemed to know anything about that being Les' "last wish".  Rick became President and all the others (Garrett and Wade) became vice presidents.  There was a falling out when Rick let Ingenuity die on the vine (it had competing principle with his own 13 principles).  By this time Wade owned one of the major holding companies giving money to Founders (Koerbers investment company).  When the Fed's shut off any new money coming in....they have all began to implode, starting with the bottom (Atlas, Hunter etc.) and will end with Founders and FranklinSquire.  I have watched this from the outside for 3 years trying to see where the cracks were to get family members out, the problem is the cult-like following Rick,Garrett and Wade have because of thier mansions, cars, cruieses and producer...not...consumer attitudes (let the other poor smuck work not you) principles.

I was supposed to own the plane that Les was killed in.  I was going to "Capital Lease" the plane to him (what a joke) and get income for them using my credit to buy the plane.  At least the insurance would have paid me back.  I don't think Wade owned the plane, not sure on that one but another person represented to me that he owned it.  I really feel like such an idiot getting involved with anyone from this web of people.  

A few corrections to Just a Following: 

Sleater was a co-owner of Atlas Marketing.  Sleater became acquainted with Les when Engenuity rented the space across from them in Jamestown.  Wade didn't own the plane.  After the crash Franklin Squires and Engenuity figuratively merged with each other.  Wade was made CEO of Engenuity and Gunderson was a CEO too.  With all egos involved the "merger" failed in August 2007 and all three went their separate ways. 

The rumor was that Rick and more specifically Founders Capital was always the big sugar-daddy that paid Wade, Les, Paul a huge percent on the money they brought to him.  Some of the money given to those people by the downline was probably diverted into their own respective schemes (i.e. Hunter), but considering the rates FC was paying I bet most of it went there.

I wish I knew more.  The person I knew was let go last summer.  So most of it is second-hand and not complete, but I hope it helps.   

I hope they don't bend down to pick up the soap.  They will have a whole new meaning to the "Paradigm of Abundance."

 My neighbor has invested with mr sleater...and for over a year now has sung his praise, and the principles he lives, and the teachings of this producer lifestyle...etc etc.... I tried to tell him it was a joke- I had met wade a few times, and had a few close friends  who worked for him ....but this blog is too funny...everyone just stating whatever they think has happened and others taking it for gospel... And to "just a following" don't just make stuff up to be cool..... if you don't know...don't post it...if you know facts- post them...... Garrett and wade met on a mission? Might be tough...Garett isn't LDS Also I doubt Les and Wade were mission companions as Les was 6 years older than wade according the papers stating his age at death...- Also according to the newspapers Wade owned the plane- or other peoples money did...however it worked.. I hate to see other names getting pulled through this mess as I think Mr Sleater has been the master deceiver in his game... I think people like Rex and Garrett got duped into investing, as they trusted him, and he flat out lied....and wade has shown loyalty only to himself as he has even ruined lives of close friends and family...knowingly...yet seems to be walking away from this...trying to wash his hands of it- He'll end up getting his  in the end:) good old karma  But people like Garrett and Rex are supposedly "real estate experts and financial planners and amazing entrepreneurs "....so they should have known the economy cannot support 3-5% per month... and i don't feel bad for them if they lost money of their own or other peoples money... education is expensive sometimes...

Wade owned the airplane "according to the newspaper" ? Listen ass wipe, if you are getting your facts from the newspaper you are worse off than any here in the arena of knowledge .  BTW my condolences to you "neighbor".  I suppose you do this "neighbor" favors by buying his Preparation H to save him the embarrassment.  It's obvious you're trying to save face for RW or GG or both.  What other names have been mentioned other that RK and WS?  

Too bad you showed your hand trying to portray Rex and Garrett as being duped and victims.  Are you trying to tell us that Wade came up with the concept of Capital Leasing and sprung in on Rex?  That is pure BS amigo. 

I  will give you this, Garrett doesn't know much about anything.  He thinks if he says something really forcefully and enthusiastically it somehow makes it more valid and accurate. He's like Tony Robbins--only more shallow.  The gist of his pitch seems to be that 401ks are bad investments (sometimes true) high priced mutual funds suck (mostly true), and that whole life insurance is the way to go (WTF?).  I don't want to argue the merits of the product he sells.  The guy is just an insurance salesman who has deluded himself.  Just check out his personal blog.  It makes no sense.  I could see him getting duped by Sleater, but I really doubt that's the way it happened.

Back to Atlas Marketing.  I would like to call on those participating in this blog to respond and encourage others who are not aware of this blog to further discuss in greater detail past and present happenings at the former Atlas Marketing.  This is not going to die quietly.  These snakes will be held accountable.

I have a relative who was an "Independent Contractor" (Sales Rep) for the company.  Early on when he was deciding whether he should work there, he asked my opinion as I had done door-to-door sales when I was his age.  My advice was to find something else to do.  This was not because door-to-door sales was too difficult (however, it is difficult) but because what he was relaying to me their business practices and they sounded far from acceptable.  There were red flags everywhere.  It sounded shockingly similar the movie "Boiler Room"
 

Against my advice, this young man decided to go engage with these people to earn money for his mission.  While WADE SLEATER and DOUG ROBINSON are currently slithering around, this young man has been financially devastated and has struggled with his decision to serve at all.  Where is Wade Sleater?  Who knows.  I understand Doug Robinson signed a huge contract at Pinnacle Marketing and currently feels no obligation to make reparations to people he has "led" astray.  He claims HE is a victim.  Can you believe that?  What a joke.  He has no business being a leader in ANY organization.  Where is his accountability?  Someone who knows this loser should contact him and have him stand up like a man!  

I've never heard of Garrett prior to reading this blog, but the "401k vs. permanent insurance" pitch you mention rings a bell.  I first heard of an insurance sales system called LEAP Systems probably a decade ago.  They claim to provide a system (for insurnace salespeople) of "financial engineering" to present to insurance prospects/clients that shows a person how to optimize their long-term financial success.  There's a good deal of math they run through really fast that few understand, a canned presentation that shows how poor of decisions you've been making (like the illustration that your 401k is a long-term money loser compared to alternatives or the foolishness of paying your mortgage down) and by the end of the engagement it "proves" that, when properly managed, permanent insurance will best meet your long-term goals.  The similarities to what you describe lead me to believe that perhaps this System served as a springboard for some of Garretts financial philosophies. 

I attended a CE class for life insurance agents some time ago and the instructor, a very knowledgable and surprisingly straightforward fellow considering his audience, was presented with a bit of the 401k vs. permanent insurance argument by one of the agents attending the class.  The instructor asked this group of 30ish insurance agents how many of them recommend permanent life insurance as a means of accumulating money for retirement...most (probably 90%) raised their hands and he left it at that.  In our next session, a week later, he asked the same group how many of them had retired clients who derive a signficant portion of their standard of living from their 401k or IRAs... well over half of the hands went up.  Later that night he asked the same group who probably represent thousands of clients how many of them had retired clients who derived a significant portion of their standard of living from Permanent Life Insurance policies...not a single hand went up, not one, and he waited a long time for somebody to raise their hand.